of patriotism and christian nations

as i read thru the comments on my american patriots bible post i had quite a reaction to what was being said. so for anyone who may not be threading thru the comment section here is whats going on:

at present there are two men who have come out in support of the american patriots bible in response to the original post. they are don white jr and dave douglas. i dont know these men personally and cannot speak to their hearts or motives but their support for the bible in question and its purpose are clear in their comments which i offer in their entirety for the sake of fairness and context:

It saddens me that so many people, including those who call themselves “Christians,” are judging this bible by saying it is proclaiming America, in the context of its government, as being Christian. This is further from the truth. It is simply celebrating Christians in America who are patriotic. Is there a problem with Christians being patriotic? Of course not. Secondly, the idea that Thomas Nelson and a man of integrity like Dr. Richard Lee, the general editor, would ever “blaspheme” God’s Word is preposterous. These articles, stories and illustrations are a “compendium” to the bible. None of the Books of the Bible, chapters, verses or words were changed in any way. I encourage everyone to not “judge this book by its cover” and get a copy for yourselves before assuming that The American Patriot’s Bible is trying to make Jesus out to be an American patriot or that American government is Christian. When people say “America is a Christian nation” that is not implying that American government is Christian. It is implying that most Americans have been and consider themselves Christians, including many of the founding fathers. This confusion is rampant and is rarely clarified. This bible is a wonderful celebration to the many Christians in our nation who have shown their patriotism in many ways. I encourage everyone to get a copy and see for themselves before judging this book by its title or its cover. ~ don white jr

I believe the intention of the phrase “we are a Christian nation” in the context of geographic religion is the same as saying: “the majority of those who live in America prescribe to the Christian faith” which is a well documented fact. If polls over the last 100 years in America happen to show a majority of its citizens eat Oscar Meyer Weiners, then I believe in the context of a discussion of hot dogs we could say “we are an Oscar Meyer Weiner nation.” With respect to ones “fruits” or whether those who truly are Christians (believe Jesus Christ is the Savior) is only known by God. If seekers of truth are looking to “people” who call themselves Christians as the measuring stick of validity of the bible or Christianty, then they are looking horizontally instead of up, Thomas Jefferson included. However I do understand your point that the poll numbers could be off if people have answered “Christian” as their prescribed faith and aren’t practincing their faith. I think most Americans do believe in God and the teachings of the bible, but are not willing to commit to its lifestyle. ~ don white jr

I am reminded that God does take an interest in the affairs of men and does so often by His design and plan for the world. If we believe in the Sovereignty of God, we must believe He is the orchestrator and designer of the deeds and actions of nations, not just individuals. This includes all the nations of the world, not just America. I have the Patriot Bible and find great interest in the documentation. But, I am the citizen of the Kingdom of God first. I do see a direct correlation between His kingdom and our nation, at least in the way He has allowed us to help other nations, send missionaries around the world and reach out with the gospel of His salvation. We cannot deny, nor can we revise history to say that our nation was NOT founded on many of the principles and that we are strongly influenced by the Holy Word. This bible is simply connecting a few dots, ones that exist in history and have been revised out of today’s history books. I don’t read this as an attempt to develop a nationalistic theocracy built on Christianity at all, but as a reminder of the faith of our fathers and our founders. ~ dave douglas

the following is my reply:

is jesus a patriotic nationalist who stands up when the national anthem is played and covers his heart pledging allegiance to the united states of america? does he take up arms against americas enemies? does he sanction our putting bullets and shrapnel into people of other nations?

did our lord and savior live and die and live again so that god-fearing men might kill their god-fearing cousins in the revolutionary war? did he approve our independence being sought with canons and muskets as christians killed christians on the battlefields?

did jesus glory in the slaughter of native americans and the kidnapping and enslavement of africans to work americas fields? was he overjoyed when we set to war against ourselves over the very issue of slavery and grew into the industrial age where a very few families controlled the greatest portion of wealth while the rest of the country struggled to survive?

was he orchestrating our invasion of normandy and sending fire from heaven on our enemies in nagasaki and hiroshima? has he backed us in the gulf wars?

im curious just when exactly this was a christian nation and how anyone claiming to be a jesus follower ended up following him into such thinking…bc where this nation started and where it has come is in every way completely incongruous with the life death and resurrection of the jesus in scripture.

and i will be damned if i follow any other jesus.

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~ by graceshaker on May 26, 2009.

3 Responses to “of patriotism and christian nations”

  1. Amen!

  2. Hi. remember me? (http://xpiratex.tblog.com)

  3. Now I do know that my God placed this government over me. If God saw fit to place this authority over me then I will choose to place my allegiance to the country God has placed me in and to follow the laws of the government placed over me.

    I also know that God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Jesus is the same God that destoryed Sodom and Gomorah and the same that drowned the Egyptians. God is love and wrath, just and merciful, full of grace and judge of all.
    I know that while this country and all others have screwed it up along the way and are not perfect by any stretch of the imagination; that God has used war and this country in the midst of war to do his will. WWII when Germany sought to anihilate the Jews for example.
    It is easier to simplify an issue rather than embrace the complexity that is our God. He is not limited to our single state of emotion or stiff-necked ideologies. He is just in all he does and all his actions are holy. So in the OT when he destorys entire cities regardless of man woman or child, he is just in his jugement of those people.

    We may not follow him down the straight and narrow most of the time but one could never deny that war can be justified. It is irrellevant to me what a book tells me because I have seen my God act in a multitude of ways with mercy and with jugement and both are holy.

    Christ is but part of who God is.

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